We have more on the European Super League. Keep your mails coming in to theeditor@football365.com…
This is all your fault
FIFA and UEFA are pretty much the most corrupt organisations in the world.
The government, the FA and the Premier League are all happy to let anyone with a few billion pounds buy any club in football.
The press w*nk themselves off whenever Man City blow away the opposition because they have all the money in the world to buy whatever players and manager they want.
City and Chelsea fans are all happy with the situation as long as they are winning trophies.
Now it’s gone to the next logical conclusion you are all up in arms? Seriously?
You all created this, you can’t start complaining about it now!
Adonis Stevenson, AFC
…I start with the caveat that I am an Arsenal fan and am appalled by the announcement of this ‘Super League.’ It will ruin football.
However this is the culmination of 25 years of greed.
Some of the reactions I have seen are ironic. Gary Neville, who has been the most vocal about his feelings, was apart of a Man United team that preferred to play in the World Club Championships over the FA Cup. That cup has never recovered it’s prestige.
Let’s not forget that the birth of the ‘Premier League’ had an eerily similar beginning to the Super League, with Sky TV being its biggest benefactor. The same Sky that are providing the platform for people like Neville to share their feelings, most likely because they will not be receiving the rights to show the new league.
Having been forced to pay Messi over £1m per week to keep him and the fans happy, Barcelona are heavily in debt. Why wouldn’t they accept hundreds of millions of pounds being thrown at them?
When our clubs don’t spend tens of millions on new players, we moan. When our clubs don’t offer extravagant contracts to existing star players, we moan. We are all to blame just as much as these owners for the greed that has enveloped football.
Ash, London
Klopp forgoes chance to be Churchill in war on ESL
…I’d love to know why these legions of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc fans proclaiming that they’re disgusted with the super league proposals and going to support their local team didn’t support that team in the first place?
These guys in Bristol, Doncaster, Falkirk and Dublin are the very reason this proposal came about – they are the reason the TV money has grown to the extent that these 12 teams need to keep shovelling it down and guard it so jealously. The way football is funded today is to serve their demands to watch Man United whilst they ignore Doncaster Rovers, Dundalk or whoever plays at the end of their street.
The sad thing that when, inevitably, UEFA and the clubs reach a settlement they’ll go right back to whining about the ignominy of finishing 6th every now and then.
Gavin, Fife
They never were your clubs
The verdict seems to be unanimous. There aren’t any dissenting voices, or at least if there are they have been lost in the howl of outrage. The sentiments from all quarters appear to be broadly similar “I am a lifelong (insert name here) supporter, and I am horrified that my team would abandon their fans and make such a blatant cash grab!” But here’s the thing, are they really “your” team. Have they ever been?
Football teams are clubs, clubs have members, you aren’t one. Oh sure they allowed you to become a “member” of the club, they allowed you to give them money so you felt like you were part of something. Lots of organizations do something similar, but members of the Mickey Mouse club didn’t get invited to the after party when Avengers:Endgame was released and they definitely didn’t get a cut of the 3 billion dollar worldwide box office. Clubs allow you to pay the green fees, buy the equipment and hire the staff to keep the fairways trimmed, but they don’t actually let you play. And if they decide that they “don’t want your kind around here” anymore, they’ll be sure to let you know.
Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds were in a similar proximity to Goodison and Anfield, maybe that was a little too close for the Dodgers who preferred to challenge the Yankees from a little further away and moved to Los Angeles in 1958.
The Baltimore Colts relocated to Indianapolis in the middle of the night, before anyone realized what had happened. Apparently Baltimore was a terrible place to have an NFL football team, which made it all the more ironic when the Cleveland Browns relocated there 12 years later. The Oakland Raiders moved to LA in 1982, and then turned round and moved back to Oakland in 1995. Now they’re in Las Vegas, but who knows how long that will last.
You may have wondered how many lakes there are in Southern California, and puzzled at the NBA team name. The answer is not many, but there are a lot in Minnesota the “land of ten thousand lakes” where the Lakers moved from in 1960. I don’t think Tennessee is particularly known for its bear population, but it makes more sense when you know that the Memphis Grizzlies moved from Vancouver in 2001.
The Quebec Nordiques moved to Colorado, the Atlanta Flames to Calgary, the Minnesota North Stars to Dallas. The MK Dons… The list goes on.
What was the point of this history lesson (assuming there was one…)? How much did these teams really care about their fans? Did any of them expect their current fans to continue to follow them after their move, or did they just count on getting a new set of fans in a more lucrative market?
So, back to the European “Super” League. What do you do if you’re a fan of (insert name here)? You can scream and shout all you want, but it’s unlikely the club will listen. After all, it’s not personal it’s just business. The other thing you can do is to not buy tickets to see your beloved (INH), that’s more likely to get attention. If the “Super” League teams are playing to empty stadiums (assuming the time will come when that’s not enforced by the government) it may have an impact. But maybe they will get all their money from TV revenue, and the league will be able to sign huge contracts and make buckets of money that way. Maybe it won’t matter whether you go to matches or sign-up for TV packages to watch them, because people from another continent will. You know the ones, the “fans” who bought all those replica jerseys and made the club loads of money that allowed them to sign Van Nistelrooy, Torres, Drogba etc. Maybe you should just be happy that it lasted as long as it did.
Maybe “your” club won’t mind that you don’t support them any more, because someone somewhere else does. And if that’s the case, maybe they’re not really “your” club. Maybe they never were.
Andrew (all bitter and twisted) – Canada
Yes to ESL. But not like this
I have long argued for a European Super League as nobody wants to watch Burnley vs Fulham, Genoa vs Spezia, or Cadiz vs Huesca. But what I had envisaged was based on sporting success. The top three teams from most European leagues would play. These are likely to be big teams but the chance is there for anyone to be included if they have a good season. Teams would not be financially rewarded for performance, however, players and staff would be very generously rewarded by bonuses depending on their performance from the competition itself. My European Super League would sell its own rights so that new markets can enjoy a better quality of match more frequently, and it is very likely that the usual suspects would feature anyway. That was my vision. In economic terms, football has run into an enormous problem in that clubs pay the players. They are therefore liable against the terms of contracts to players. If they fail to perform and have a bad season, they are still liable for that contract. Owners are increasingly concerned that their income isn’t stable or isn’t a ‘known’ long term factor and want a fixed income to serve their own interests. The problem is sporting success is not in theory fixed or guaranteed.
If a club has a perfect Champions League campaign, they only stand to make £74M and given football’s global appeal must seriously be well below what in theory could be a maximum market rate. I suspect this barely covers player salaries. Under the new proposals, clubs joining the ESL can expect a £200-300M golden handshake, and I would expect probably a guaranteed £100M per season. There has been a proven correlation between regular Champions League participation with higher salaries, and a proven correlation between higher salaries and winning leagues. Out of the twelve founder clubs of the ESL, they have all won their respective leagues between them during the past thirty years – apart from Tottenham. Valencia were the last team to win La Liga back in ‘03-’04, and Roma were the last team to win Serie A in ’00-’01. Leicester were the last team to win the Premier League in ’15-’16 but before that it was Blackburn in ’94-’95. I am surprised that Bayern and Dortmund have not signed up to the ESL because the last time to win that wasn’t either of those two were Wolfsburg in ’08-’09. I am also surprised that PSG haven’t joined. Sporting were the last winners of the Portuguese league that weren’t Benfica or Porto back in ’01-’02. Thanks to all that extra money, the ESL clubs will buy the best talent thanks to their vast comparative wealth to the rest of their league and therefore guarantee they will never ever finish below sixth in England or third in Spain or Italy. Do we want this? If I’m a CEO of an ESL club then of course I do. If I’m a CEO of a non-ESL club, I would therefore run a club on a budget like Newcastle as there would be little incentive to invest in your own club due to the vastly reduced chances of success due to a vastly reduced budget by comparison. The best a non-ESL club could ever hope for would be seventh in the Premier League.
Third paragraph: there are too many boring games in domestic leagues and in current European competition. The logical conclusion is to have more games between elite sides. A European Super League is inevitable and would be very watchable. But protecting revenue streams against a private cartel is not the way to do it. This is a basic income and expenditure problem, and it’s most likely to be solved by player and staff contracts being paid by league competitions and huge bonuses for success instead of further enriching private clubs against unsustainable private contracts.
Rich (WBA, but would accept Grealish as England captain if ESL players are all banned), Cambridge
Bring on the Super League!
Am I the only one looking forward to the Super League? The thing is the games I look forward to the most are the clashes between the big teams. Chelsea v Krasnador or Chelsea v ANY of the ESL teams. Barcelona v Ferancvaros or Barcelona v ANY of the ESL teams.
Who can look at themselves with a straight face and say yeah sure I want to see Krasnador visit Old Trafford over Barcelona. You’re lying to yourself. I’ll gladly wager you the price of your season ticket that you won’t boycott these games. Because after you’ve screamed and shouted you’ll actually get excited come matchday.
Oh and if you support a club not in, let’s say Everton, how long are you seriously going to stay mad for once you are in the champions league every year? Even the watered down version.
Frankly it’s sanctimonious rubbish. You already watch millionaires running around a field for billion dollar clubs, earning money for billion dollar media companies. Oh but it’s the people’s game. Not at premier league or champions league level it isn’t. There are plenty of proper community clubs in the lower reaches, that’s where the people’s games now lies, the top tiers are Hollywood for sport.
Cookie
ESL, FFS
Still not sure about this Super League thing. It isn’t clear yet how it will operate. Plus, without teams like Bayen, PSG, etc, and the inclusion of the recently dodgy Milans and the current Arsenal and Spurs teams, bit special to call yourselves Super.
But I am loving all the hypocritical outrage.
So Boris is going to get tough. All politicians absolutely LOVE football when it comes to a possible vote catching opportunity but are missing when real action is needed. The leader of the self same Tory government that did its best to hinder the inquiries into Hillsborough. Who killed the idea of safe standing and pander to the FA that is clearly not fit for purpose and meeting the diversity of the country. But oh yes, when there’s a chance to rally the crowd around those nasty Johnny foreigners – Boris is all over it.
Then I was thinking about all those protesting about the Americanization of the game and stuff those American owners. Fine. But how many love American football, would pay to see a game in England or support the idea of a franchise in England? Quite a few I would imagine.We want to keep the EPL for the ‘English’ as long as those foreigners invest in us – and remember – its not just the top 6 but all the way down the Premier League and Championship. But the concern that the golden goose may be flying the coop.
The game has exploded in the EPL precisely because people from around the world follow the game. It may take them forever to pay for a team shirt and the chance of them ever affording to see a game at the home ground almost non-existent, but they help raise the profile and investment in the team that we get to watch regularly. But hey, don’t allow them the chance to see their team play a competitive game elsewhere, the way I can see an American Football game in London. Only works one way you know.
UEFA are spluttering all over their expensive coffee and croissant in Switzerland in the private suite of their five star hotel. Sacre bleu! How dare these non-French speaking Jeannie nouveau comers take control of ‘our’ game.
Even Piers Morgan has decided to stop hammering young women who won’t give him the time of day for a moment to tweet his distaste. Something that gets up his nose so bad has to be a good thing.
Question is, which is being more talked about right now? Line of Duty’s most recent cliffhanger or the new Super League. Damn Jed Mecurio, will anyone who isn’t a die-hard football fan even notice?
Paul McDevitt
Johnny Nic: Big Six can f*** off to European Super Jerk Off League now
…Okay as a United fan can we please start referring to the actual perpetrators of this footballing travesty the owners, the Glazer’s, FSG, Kroenke, City’s Arab contingent when venting your ire rather than blaming the teams as United, Liverpool, City and the players have no actual say in how the filthy money-grubbing owners pedal their names. The Americanisation of football is being pushed by United and Liverpool’s scummy owners, and as a United fan if this happens I will forgo 50 plus years of supporting my team through thick and thin and start watching lower league football. The callous disregard they have shown fans proves once and for all that money is everything in their eyes, I can see the Glazers moving United to Tampa in the future as (the franchise) it makes more sense to be near their power base. Goodbye to the team of my youth, the team my dad spoke lovingly about, the babes, Edwards, Best, Law, Charlton hello to Mr corporate bullshit closed shop shite.
Paul Murphy, gently weeping in Manchester
…Supported Liverpool for over 35 years. Absolutely disgusted with them right now. Not the players, not Klopp, but the greedy parasitic owners. That Klopp, the manager of and single most important person at the club, only found out about this at the same time as the rest of us, is a good indication of just how shady this whole thing is.
These parasites only understand one thing – money. And while I’d agree with suggestions of boycotts of sponsors and companies owned by those behind this, I’d go much further. Start with a 100% tax on any money taken out of a club by the owners. And a 100% tax on any profit generated from a sale of a club. See how long they stick around if this was implemented. We don’t need hedge funds or vulture capitalists owning football clubs. The money in football comes from us, the fans, via subscriptions to tv, sponsorships, and match day and shirt sales etc. If the rich want to indulge themselves or build their profile by owning a club – work away, but you’re not going to extract money while you do so. German model of majority supporter ownership must also be considered.
And while this might not align with Boris’s ‘let the rich do as they please’ instinct, it does align well with his ‘do whatever makes Boris look good at a particular moment’ instinct.
While we still have democracy we have a significant amount of power. There are a lot more of us than there are of them.
Kieran, LFC
…I feel there’s a few things we’re all missing here. With hindsight, this was inevitable for a long time. FIFA and their mafia have been covering the big money players in football for years, as have fans when their clubs get bought out by oil billionaires;
When people amass money in all sections of society, they the utilise this money to no longer have to play by the rules everyone else has to adhere to. This is why billionaires don’t pay taxes and large corporations ‘donate’ to political parties to ensure they get generous government contracts.
In this case we sold our clubs to oil billionaires with questionable human rights records and celebrated outside stadiums (with tea towels on our heads). Every year we agreed to fork out more and more to watch the matches provided our club were continually spending more millions on players. Transfer deadline day became more important than FA Cup final, in terms of fanfare and news coverage.
When the World Cup goes to a country that facilitate said World Cup by enslaving thousands of people and yet few plan to boycott. Just as few will actually boycott the Super League for all the same reasons.
Then FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League of all organisations, try to claim a moral high ground. They have continually added more matches into the calendar for years to squeeze more money out of broadcast revenue. These extra matches meant the bigger clubs had to have players on their bench that smaller clubs could only dream of. Creating a growing distance between them.
The only point that makes me smile, is the point everyone involved in the Super League is missing, will be their downfall. Games between the biggest teams in Europe are special because they don’t happen all the time. Ensuring the biggest clubs play all the time will mean those special nights become the norm and by definition not special. Then fans will stop travelling to away matches in the numbers they currently do across Europe and it won’t take much to see that sports without fans gets many less TV fans involved as well. They forget that what makes football special is that a team at the top of the league can lose to a team at the bottom. This does not happen with such regularity in football.
Sentiments like ‘wealthy families are destroying a hundred years of football’ are not true. This has been football for at least 20 years, but the seeds were sown a decade prior.
People that have this much money are used to taking risks and will go ahead regardless. By the time the situation has been dragged through the courts for a few years, all the fallout and anger will have subsided – the super league will go ahead and will have its own streaming platform just like WWE. The lack of serious competition will also mirror that their platform.
Sean (F365 – is it now fair to use the term ‘the games gone’ now?)
Prick of the Week, No.30: The game’s gone
…Someone else said, on another similar forum, that the FA, with or without the cooperation of the other national associations involved, should immediately announce a 20 point deduction, effective now, for any club involved in the construction of the ESL. That would leave Arsenal into the relegation zone and leave Spurs 1 place above the line. What a good idea – let’s try to get that set up ASAP.
I’ve also read that all players at the elitist clubs involved should be immediately banned from their national sides – let’s see what effect that has on their enthusiasm for the idea.
Please, please, for the sake of the game, help build up a head of steam for these two suggestions. I claim no credit for them – just want to spread the ideas as far as possible.
Life-long Man U fan (not any more!)
…The response to the European Super League has been interesting to say the least, coming from a variety of different standpoints, from fans, to broadcasters, to political interests.
We’ll start with broadcasters.
Sky have been credited with the advancement of the game in a number of ways. Investment in football, giving the clubs here more ‘pull’ to bring in the most exciting foreign talent and helped create a ‘product’ (urgh) that feels like it is a higher quality and more inclusive than the game that preceded it. On the surface anyway, it seems. But Sky led the breakaway of the top division and aided the creation of the Premier League, separate from football league control. They have helped to create an ever growing gap between the haves and have nots of football. They’ve contributed to the gentrification of football, taking it out of the hands of the working man or woman and placed it into the hands of the bourgeoisie. They have done this not only in football, but in other sports too. Everything they touch tends to move sport further away from the average viewer or supporter.
Along with BT and other broadcasters now, they’re positioning themselves firmly on the side of football supporters. Just 4 months ago they had their wrists and faces severely slapped for trying to charge paying subscribers EVEN MORE MONEY to watch football matches, individual matches, for £15 a pop. This is a broadcaster that bombards young supporters with a cocktail of gambling and payday loan adverts, that pretends competitions they don’t broadcast exist. That report stories on transfer deadline day that trigger betting activity which is merely agent tittle tattle. A broadcaster that often compromises its own product with poor, lazy and often biased punditry and commentary. Quite a lot of what they do is diametrically opposed to what an average fan identifies with
Political interests – FIFA and UEFA for two, have really degraded the game and it’s reputation, particularly over the last couple of decades. If the bodies who ran our game were paragons of virtue and had the interests of the game as part of their core values, there would be signifcantly fewer opportunity of something like this taking hold. Listening to these organisations talk about the destruction of the game when they have overseen some of the most vile and deplorable corruption in elite sport, from bungs to award countries with questionable human rights records a major tournament, to taking money from powerful lobbyists and using this money to pressure countries to repeal laws for their tournaments, is beyond sickening to be honest. A key example was the Budweiser Bill for Brazil 2014. A country that banned alcohol in stadiums due to booze fuelled violence that resulted often in deaths, were forced to overturn it for the tournament so FIFA could sell this piss to fans and profit from it and them. The Game needs these ruling bodies to be clean and transparent, because when a challenge to their authority like this manifests itself, one that poses a real existential threat to the future of the game, we need to be able to trust them and clearly align ourselves with them and against what is clearly a greedy corporate monster trying to overthrow them. Because we don’t see UEFA and FIFA in this way, there will be a school of thought that welcomes the challenge to these bodies even if we as fans don’t support the outfit challenging them. You will see a growing desire from fans to simply let it all burn. That really is dangerous for the future of the game.
As for the clubs, I don’t see them as culpable as the broadcasters or the political ruling bodies, not generally anyway, but they have contributed largely to the disillusionment of a lot of fans of the game, be it in overcharging for tickets and merchandise, and the sanitisation of the product itself. Each little act pushes the game further away from where the real power base should be, the supporters, and further into the clutches of the dark forces trying to steal it for themselves, trying to create a closed shop, to fortify it and pull up the drawbridge. Obviously the big six and their cohorts across the continent are immediately and directly more guilty, for being part of this breakaway, look at the behaviour of the owners of Newcastle over the years. Portsmouth, Blackburn Rovers, Birmingham City. They treated their fans like dirt and reduced their clubs to nothing. West Ham’s owners are often ridiculed. Vincent Tan turning up and changing the colour of the teams kit. They’re called the Bluebirds and he changed them to red ffs. Each of these things in isolation chips away at the love of the game the average person in the U.K. has or had. It’s the responsibility of all clubs to maintain their ties not only to the communities they serve and the people living within them who invest their time and money back into the clubs, but to also maintain their grasp of reality. Domestic football is the bread and butter of our great sport. The foundation of what the game is built on. About stuffing the lot down the road regardless of what the quality of football is. About striving to become better and to qualify for those prestigious tournaments and test yourself against the best in Europe. About protecting the sanctity of meritocracy that underpins all competitive sport. As I’ve mentioned previously, there are different levels of guilt here, but if you treat your fans with contempt you’re part of the problem. I’ve been really heartened by the force of criticism of the big six by other clubs, but this isn’t the only problem, and I’ve heard fans of probably every club at some point talking about how the ‘game has gone’. That is partly due to the clubs themselves and their disregard for ordinary supporters, not just the behaviour of big corporate entities forcing their way in.
The only true organic trustworthy response to this whole debacle has come from the fans and you guessed it, the fans are the only people without any real power to do anything about the whole situation. This is the problem facing football today. Fans need more control over the sport that cannot live without them. Bring in 51% ownership of clubs for fans, bring in salary caps or severely limit the influence wealthy people can have to control the future of clubs or distort the fairness of the competition. The increase of money may well have improved the quality of the actual football on show, or the conditioning of the players who play it, but everywhere you look, whether it be Spain, Italy, France, England…the increase of money coming into the game has made every single league in Europe less competitive and made it harder for other clubs to win. You have statistical anomalies, like Leicester winning the PL or Montpellier a few years ago in France, but largely it’s the money that wins.
Steps need to be taken to move the sport away from its obsession with money and make it a spectacle that the average man or woman in the street can fall back in love with. What is important to remember is that the European Super League only represents one threat to the game we all fell in love with as kids. One threat. Let’s all face it off by ditching club alliances. And then let’s train our collective gaze on the corrupt political powers controlling the sport. The corrupt greed that they represent. Then target the disregard for supporters that many of our clubs show and then to face off the major broadcasters who pretend they’re our friends when it suits their business agenda and fleeces us the next
RossH – Football fan > THFC fan
…After the initial gnashing and wailing of teeth and ‘won’t somebody think of the kids’ hopefully it’s time to look at this proposed league as the ‘Super’ clubs have.
They would not have thrown this hand grenade without having lots of highly paid people run the numbers and come back with a big thumbs up.
In short all that matters is the money (no surprise there) which means the following
1. Fans do not matter. At least not the traditional home grown fans. The ‘other’ overseas fans DO matter. They will buy merchandise will subscribe to channels, will tune in to the proposed matches and will purchase anything sponsored / linked with these clubs (we have tractor, paint, food partners for a reason), and won’t let silly things like tradition and history get in the way.
2. World Cup and Euros player bans are a non starter.The sponsorship is key. UEFA and FIFA do not put on their competitions out of the goodness of their hearts. They are paid vast sums by huge companies for the exposure. Who is going to sponsor a World Cup with no Messi, Ronaldo, Salah, De Bruyne, Neymar, Mbappe, Dier? Is anyone in the FIFA/UEFA gravy boat going to jump out on ‘principle’?
3. How would individual international FA’s vote on that. Would Egypt agree not to select Salah?. Would Senegal give up on Mane?
4. Domestic ‘bans’ are more likely but then again the Super clubs don’t care so all a moot point.
I would say that the success of all of this comes down to the players and the managers. We have to realise that the vast majority of them, and rightly so, do not, and will not have the same emotional connection to ‘our clubs’ as we do. It is their job. The question is, will they want to be playing in this competition? Does it hold the same appeal? Technically they will be competing against the best on a weekly basis which is sure to be attractive. It’s possible that the likes or Haaland, Lewandowski and co might not be happy to be missing out and jump ship to one of these clubs? Without the threat of missing out on the big International stage where is their downside? They will still be competing for a trophy. Still be adored by thousands of fans. Still paid vast amounts of cash.
The traditional fans can complain, withdraw their support but some will return regardless. Those that don’t replaced by the day trippers.
It’s partly our own fault anyway. We tolerated the subscription fees – brings money into the game, helps secure the best players. We were fine with overseas pre season games – widen the fan base, brings money into the club, helps buy players. Overseas owners – great, plough money in, buy nice players.
I think this has more chance of succeeding than most people think.
Martin (LFC)
Neville slams Glazer ‘scavengers’ who need ‘booting out’ of football
…Everyone’s covered almost everything. But I’ll say what I think we should start with and what I hope happens.
1. Delete your club apps. I deleted Man Utd app this morning. I work in app industry and I know how much a cash cow these apps can be. It’s a small gesture, but it’s one we can all make in 10 seconds.
2. Don’t buy merch, don’t return to attention games.
3. Let every player at ESL clubs know we have their backs if they stand up against it.
What I’d like to see happen:
1. Mbappe/Haaland/Etc. public ally declare they won’t sign for ESL clubs. When these clubs realize the top talent won’t sign with them, how are they going to draw fans and make merch sales?
2. Players walk off pitch. Go out for the game, walk off at kickoff. Football may be for fans, but it literally can’t exist without players.
3. Foreign players rally their overseas fans. I lived in Central America and they’ll support Real/Barca no matter what. Chances are they don’t realize the full impact of what the clubs they support are trying to do.
There’s way more to say, but there’s also ppl way smarter than me to say them. Stay strong and let’s take this down together!
Jamin, Canada; where I don’t even watch MLS cause it doesn’t have relegation/promotion
…So, whilst everyone throwing a tantrum about ESL (rightly so), everyone seems to be on the side of Uefa… imagine that? Uefa being the good guys in all this.
On the same day they come out with a revamped Champions League process that will allow clubs to finish outside the Champions League slots, but be given automatic right to qualify for the following season Champions League due to past Uefa co-efficient. Yeh, they’re the good guys in all this…
Dip, Essex
P.S. – Jose had to go, like Sam Beckett in Quantum Leap, he was a man out of his time.
P.P.S – did you know Sam Beckett never leaps home? Soul destroying that…
…50 +1 for every club in Europe and finally do away with consortiums, countries or any other wealthy 3rd party holding a majority stake, with a bottomless pit of money at their disposal…
Or
Pipe down and accept by letting this happen and crying foul when certain james bond villains aren’t allowed buy your football Club, you are in fact the reason this idea is even floated…
Luke
…I can’t bring myself to be angry about this Super League thing to be honest. It just sounds deathly dull.
The point of sport is the jeopardy. If there’s no relegation or knockout then what’s the point?
In addition, most European games are objectively dull if you remove the value of any potential prize.
It’ll all just feel like an exhibition game.
I just don’t see it as real must see event I’d care enough about to pay for.
But then I’m not a billionaire so why would the suits agree with me?
Tom
…With the world seemingly flowing headlong into some Orwellian dystopian nightmare, it was only a matter of time before football itself followed suit.
The building of this new financially blasphemous Euro league could be paraphrased by one of Orwells quotes……
‘if you want a picture of the future, imagine a football boot stamping on a human face…….. Forever’.
Thanks
Scott Pyle
…First time ever, but I agree with John Nic that the sooner this Super League gets started, the sooner we can all ignore it and let it crumble through the fickleness of consumers mistaken for fans. But here is my question to the fans of real teams outside the twelve who seem to forget the socialist roots of the game we love. What team should I support now that Liverpool have lost my support of 35 years? And will you promise not to call me a plastic fan for switching my allegiance this one time?!
Niall, Denver
…You know all this talk about the super league being disgusting and what not, well, I will tell you what I think, what right has he who sold his soul to the devil have to complain. The game is nothing without the fans you say, well, you never acted upon that and it is now that you are spouting words that contradict thy own actions.
If you still don’t understand, I am asking a simple question, why was the game that is nothing without the fans sold to the highest bidder in the first place, did the Glazers ever tell you they bought united just because they loved the club and if they did you believed them? What about Mr. Abrahamovich or Sheikh Mansour or Mr. Kroenke. Germany’s big two are reportedly yet to join in on this and why? Because a decision about this will have to be taken by the shareholders or the fans of the club. That is a place where the fans are integrated into the decision making, where ticket prices are not decided by some rich, greedy owner but the fans themselves, in short, a place where football is the fans and the fans are football and this is reflected in the way they run football there. That is a place football can truly belong, just ask leipzig, who although technically follow the rules there, certainly do not do it in the traditional manner.
What I am saying is, if you had done what you were supposed to do in the first place, none of you will be complaining about the poor human rights record of that owner, how that owner got his money through shady means, or how that owner only cares about his own pocket. None of you will be complaining of the greed of the people trying to make this happen, none of you will be worried that some American owner is trying to ruin your football as if it is alright as it currently is, none of you will say, they are doing this to pump us dry. So to all fans of those clubs, Good riddance. Not the owners, they may be greedy, they may be the bad guys but they are hardly the hypocrites
Then again, why are all of you asking why arsenal and tottenham are part of this, isn’t that obvious, I have always asked myself but tell me that league in the world were arsenal do not qualify for the champions league every other year, I can think of one, the serie a, congratulations to them, but apart from that, arsenal will qualify for the champions league in every other league in the world. I don’t see sevilla finishing above arsenal or is it frankfurt and wolfsburg that will stand in their way? I have always asked myself but does it not make you wonder that Donnanurama, one of the best goalkeepers in the world has never played in the champions league while some slavia praha player has? Do you not ever ask yourself why chelsea are playing krasnodar (I have really never heard of them before this season) in a match we all know will end 4-0 at the very least and that if chelsea decide to give less than 30%, why is there always that team in the champions league that seem to just sit there to fill up the numbers, how can krasnodar play in the champions league and arsenal, a club that will beat krasnodar every single day are not even given a mention, is it their fault that their league is better than everyone else’s. And just for once forget about the power struggle and give yourself an honest answer, have they not had enough?
I should also mention that I am not in support of the super league because I think it is the height of arrogance, I like seeing the biggest teams toil against leeds, cry against aston villa and despair against palace, it may not happen often but when you as a man utd fan wake up in the morning and see everyone saying, they actually lost to Sheffield United or a Chelsea fan feeling as though your heart is going to come out because west brom are teaching you the lesson of your lives you realize what football is meant to be. But then again, I think the super league will be interesting, a friend of mine once said that if barca or madrid where in the pl they will ALWAYS win it, I don’t think I will forget that, also, the best will truly be decided this way, the best club, the best coach etc. The champions league for all its hype does not treat clubs fairly, go back and check man city’s group in each of the past three seasons and this season especially because they were in pot 2 but still managed to get the easiest group possible and faced two german teams playing at nothing close to the level they were at last season to get to the semis where they will face the worst psg side in a decade, it still amazes me that bayern did not score at least 6 in the first leg, and after that either a madrid side that let getafe have 7 shots on target against them while managing 1 themselves or a chelsea side that man city can beat any and everyday if they just played someone instead of sterling. The ESL will no doubt be the hardest sports competition to win, though I think man city already have their 12 points from the north london brothers so I see them winning it.
I think Vashow is right, these matches are not meant to be played every week, but one thing is clear, things cannot and will not remain the same.
Sa’ad
…Seeing as the Premier League (and UEFA/FIFA) have said they will look to block the ESL, how about we start with an immediate points deduction, removed if the team withdraws from the proposals? Label it as bringing the game into direpute and hit them now with a 20-point deduction and see if they are still confident. Should the ESL start next year they may take it and go, but if it is a 2022 proposal they immediately get a knock for next season and those teams not involved get a promotion up the league. As it stands, Leicester would take the title from West Ham, with Man City still holding on to 3rd. Everton would take the 4th CL spot, with Leeds, Villa and Man Utd battling for Europa League places. Arsenal look likely to be relegated, with Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham just hanging on. That’d mix it up a bit.
Atalanta would take Serie A, with Inter just scraping 4th behind Lazio and Napoli, Sevilla take la Liga with Atletico second and Betis and Sociedad taking third and fourth.
With the potential for the ESL to collapse anyway, would clubs be willing to take the risk of a further year of financial loss? (and would Arsenal get ejected for being relegated…?)
Surely starting with a reprimand now would get them thinking.
Henry, Forest Fan (unsure how I’ll react when Forest are approached as well – history, prestige, real club etc)
…I’m sure you’re going to get hundreds of mails criticising the ESL but I for one think it’s a brilliant idea.
Yesterday I had to sit through my team (who have generously ploughed the best part of £500m into the game through transfers over the last few years) have to lower themselves to play against a cheap, unwashed and impoverished team (who selfishly only invested £750k back into the game through transfers last season) and worst still they had the temerity to actually try and make the game competitive and not just roll over and let us win comfortably.
I’m sure you’ll all agree that such behaviour is just outrageous and not fair for teams who keep pumping money into our beautiful game only to be besmirched in such a way. Therefore teams like the Soulless Salford Reds, Blue City Oilers and London Soviets all deserve their franchise billions as part of reparations against the slight on their brand.
Viva la revolution!!!
Byrneiii (can’t wait for the announcement of their franchise names)
In response to Dr Oyvind, For An Earth Without Greed: I’m on board with the rebranding. What about:
Atletico Sh*thousers
Madrid Reality Kings
Catalonia Dollarchasers
Soulless Devil Reds
Blue City Oilers
London Soviets
London Gun Blasters
Meansmore Mersey Beatles
Inter Milani
AC/DC Milan Rockers
Turin Old Gals
and
Tottenham
Byrneiii (E-S-L…E-S-L…E-S-L)
…Just a thought, but who will officiate in the new Super League?
Will UEFA ban officials from doing so, and if so, who will officiate UEFA sanctioned competitions if they break the ban?
Eoghan
…A quick thought on the European Super Duper League – who is going to referee, schedule games, arrange random drugs tests and the countless other admin tasks I lazily presume UEFA and the various national football/ league associations provide? Will local police forces be happy to provide their usual match day support for matches without backing from recognised organisations? What would happen if there was crowd unrest during a game, who would sanction the home club, or even investigate if such a sanction was required? If a player was given a lengthy ban in the real world, could he still get his game against Real Madrid? So much of this looks incredibly difficult to overcome.
Bazzz
…Obviously you will continue to get loads of mails re. the Super League. I just want to address one point in particular that I’ve seen crop up a few times. Aman’s mail in the last mailbox is an example, i.e. UEFA and FIFA are so bad, is the ESL really going to be that much worse than the current Champions League setup?
I’ve seen this attitude a fair bit among fellow City fans. Obviously, there’s no love lost among our fanbase and UEFA and I’m shedding no tears for the UEFA suits and their faux outrage about protecting the game. The problem with this point of view is that it seems to believe not too much will change – domestic football on the weekends, incl. domestic club competitions, and a new European competition mid-week. I get it, if that’s all that’s going to happen, it’s bad (closed shop, anti-competitive European football) but it’s probably not end-of-the-world bad. But if you believe that’s the end of it I think you’re pretty short-sighted and/or naïve.
I think the only reason these 12 clubs are saying they want to remain in their domestic competitions is because they need a bit of time to implement the full-blown ESL. Do you really believe these clubs are going to be happy playing the likes of Burnley, Osasuna or Spezia during weekend primetime TV slots and cramming all of their ESL matches into overlapping Wednesday evening slots? Does your fan in the Far East want to watch Man Utd playing Plymouth Argyle in some archaic English cup competition or Barcelona? The end game is ESL teams only ever playing ESL teams spread over the whole week to maximise viewers. Spreading games out over the week will also allow these teams to play their games all over the world. Remaining in their domestic leagues is a pretence – within 5 years it’ll be Liverpool vs Barcelona live from New York on Friday night, Man Utd vs Juventus from Tokyo on Saturday, and Man City vs Real Madrid from Melbourne on Sunday.
Additionally, once these clubs are in charge of their own league there’s really nothing to stop them tweaking the rules to improve the ‘entertainment’. Bigger goals, time outs, half-time shows, penalty shoot outs – all coming soon to an ESL near you.
The ESL as currently outlined is already pretty horrific. But it really is just the beginning of the end.
gomez, formerly CTID, now CTTESLS (City till the European Super League Starts)
…Sun Tzu famous adage comes to mind:
“never interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake”
Let the “super” clubs form their “super” league. Just let them. Bye bye super clubs. The rest of us can get on with playing football.
Just laugh in their faces when they beg to be allowed back in after a few years of playing each others 5 times a year.
Mike, Southampton, Saints fan.
Amazon primed
I’ve seen a number of people questioning where the money is coming from and who will be broadcasting f the games.
I think it’s pretty clear and the evidence is there for all to see.
Amazon.
They’ve been testing their broadcast platform for a year now, using a few gameweeks from the Premier League.
It always struck me as odd that they had never made any big waves about bidding for any of the main Premier League broadcast packages. Why would a company be setting up a platform for broadcasting football without bidding for the premium packages?
Oh. They’ve been in on this from the get go and their Premier League coverage was just a dress rehearsal for the big one.
They knew they had to have a working platform for the launch, free of the teething troubles they had a year ago when people couldn’t connect.
Bezos and his chums have been in bed on this one for a while.
PeterB
All hail Daniel Levy
Spurs fan since the late 80s here. Head firmly screwed on. I’ll believe we’re contenders for a title when I see it.
But to anyone mocking our application for the super league, what you’re seeing is Levy doing his job and fighting our corner for a place at the top table.
No, we are not one of the best 12 teams in Europe, but we have a ruthless, single minded director who has got us a beautiful new stadium, a multi- title winning manager, a champions league final and a place among the elite ‘super league’ (even if it isn’t merited) .
Daniel Levy is a man any club should want in charge, and if you don’t believe it you didn’t live through the dross of the nineties as a spurs fan.
Jw
It’s still coming home
So, the England starting eleven at Euro 2020 is likely to be a 4-2-3-1 – England went from having 500 right backs to barely any more good options there.
With Pickford in Goal, a back four of James Justin, Coady, Mings, Cresswell
Rice and Kalvin Philips as the two
Grealish, Sancho, Lingard (Assuming he completes his transfer to WHU) as the three
and Calvert Lewin up top.
The rest of the squad:
GK: Pope, Johnstone
Defenders: Keane, Lamptey, Ben Mee, Targett
Mid-fielders: Jude Bellingham, Ward-Prowse, Jonjo Shelvey
Forwards:Ings, Barnes, Vardy(comes out of retirement for this surely?)
Not the worst squad in the world? Obviously there is little depth. Ben Mee is a toss of the coin, I have always believed there is a player in Jamal Lascelles but he hasnt shown that this season. Could have been Godfrey or Dunk over Mee honestly but I just like Ben Mee. Same with James Justin.
Wondering how this stacks up against the other teams. Spain has to be weakened with their best players playing in the top two teams. Guess Germany will have the best team if Bayern and Dortmund resist the temptation.
Shehzad Ghias, MUFC (Its coming Home)
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