Thanks for your mails. Send your views on Liverpool and anything else to theeditor@football365.com
Thiago precedent
Hi Mailbox,
I’ve no skin in the game of Liverpool’s ups and downs, but recent matches have got me thinking:
. Two of the best passing metronomes of their generations
. Proven international and top European league pedigree
. Brought in to much fanfare to refine successful teams and take them to the ‘next level’ just a few years after a Champion’s League triumph
. Shaven chrome-domes on top
. Real glimpses of quality on an individual basis but a drop in team performance as they lose some of their relentless verticality and directness
I greatly admired Thiago at Barcelona and Bayern, just as I did Juan Sebastian Veron pretty much everywhere else barring the Premier League, but I can’t help but see some parallels between Thiago and Veron based upon what I’ve seen so far this season.
Would be interested to hear the mailbox’s thoughts.
Ricky H
Reality check
I drift into the comments on the Liverpool social media pages only these days as a curiosity to see quite how clueless the modern football fan is. I am sure that there’ll be plenty on here too enjoying the team’s fall from grace, and I can hardly blame them. The tribal nature of football supporting means that a big slice of schadenfreude is par for the course, and I am not adverse to joining in. I have gorged myself on United’s problems post Ferguson.
But I am not very concerned about this run of results. Klopp has an unsolvable problem on his hands, the way things stand. The three main centre have season ending injuries, meaning that two of our most influential midfielders are playing out of position. This isn’t headline news, clearly, but the reality that no manager on the planet could solve this conundrum appears to be.
Liverpool haven’t been a full tilt all season, despite a few stand out performances, and the pattern in place will continue to play out over the remainder of the season. We’ll win more than we lose, and who knows, might have some fun in the Champion’s League, but this season has been decimated by injuries. It’s not an excuse, it’s an obvious explanation. The team was playing at an incredibly high level, reaching remarkable peaks, and the talent that they have missed this season has had an inevitable impact.
Shit happens.
We’ll be back challenging next season, and we’ll get that top four place.
And at least City are keeping United off their cliched perch.
Mat (anyone remember when the comments section used to be, well, not shit?)
Klopp’s biggest blunder
Dear F365,
I think the post game analysis, 16 conclusions and today’s mailbox all failed to mention the biggest tactical error that led to Liverpool’s eventual demise.
The turning point of the game yesterday was Klopp’s substitutions on 68 minutes. Bringing on Milner for Thiago made sense – Thiago was on a yellow and, with City’s change in formation, you could assume that Milner’s introduction was to help track the runners from deep.
But bringing Shaqiri on for Jones was borderline negligent. Up to that point, the two best players on the pitch were Jones and Sterling (Foden came later). What did Klopp expect Shaqiri to do? Stem the tide? Track the runners? Play further forward and win all the headers? Take control against that City midfield playing a 4-4-2 that became a 2-6-2 in possession with the wing backs pushing forward?
The immediate consequence of the change was that Liverpool, and Wijnaldum in particular, were forced to play deeper which led to the eventual panic due to the inability to break City’s press (one less midfielder as an outlet) causing the shit show that followed a few minutes later.
Liverpool deserved nothing from the game but were very much in it until that substitution.
theghostofbobhope
Liverpool silver linings
So this seems like a good time to post something positive about Liverpool. I have been fairly negative in previous emails as I was concerned the current slump was predictable when analysing some underlying performance stats and noticing some on pitch patterns. The fact it has happened is obviously not good, but it is important to put our current malaise into context and also look at the wider picture for Liverpool going forward.
Firstly, this was always going to happen. No team stays on top forever. The positive is that while we were very good, the team turned performances into silverware and ended the league drought. Did it have to be such a dramatic drop? No. Does it make much difference whether you fall from top to second on goal difference or 4th and 30 points behind. No. If your gonna lose you might as well go big and have all the underlying issues fully illuminated so you can start to address them. And Liverpool have a few. We also have some readymade fixes.
But before I start on that, I think for fans and players alike this chastening experience is probably for the better. We have enjoyed incredible success, but we have no divine right to win. Also, we should take losing with some humility and grace. Being on top means that when you fall from your perch it is hilarious for everyone else. We laughed at Utd. Now we must accept they will laugh at us. Liverpool were probably overdue having their pants pulled down…
So, on to the analysis, as I previously pointed out, our defence is largely in pieces. As explained, it is all well and good relying on Fabinho and Henderson for one off games, and especially if you are playing a weak team, but where you fall down is when they are in for lengthy periods or you are playing top sides. The top sides expose your inexperienced defenders, lengthy periods with makeshift defenders increases the likelihood the occasional defensive gaffes associated with inexperience will get punished. However, Liverpool have got two things going for them. Firstly, they have been forced to address the defensive numbers, bringing in 1 loan signing and 1 cheap player. Hopefully one of them will be very good and will now provide the requisite cover for Gomez and VVD. That we have both of those players coming back either this season or likely next means our defensive problems are solved. VVD is the best in the world, Gomez is a top young international. Our issues stemmed from their absence, not their ability.
Next we have our tactics. Without our defensive injuries I think Liverpool would have competed for the title, perhaps won it, but likely not. I think this might have papered over the cracks and we would have dallied longer before addressing the pre-existing issues. Our performances were declining before VVD and Gomez got injured, what their absence has done is put extra stress on our attack and highlight how our preferred playing style has been gradually reducing in effectiveness. Liverpool have been scoring less and less goals for a few seasons, though this has been somewhat offset by increased defensive resilience. Also our opposition have been evolving their tactics against us. This is a result of continuing to play largely the same way with the same personnel. When that happens teams have lots of data to review, assessing which tactical approaches proved effective, and particularly how to play against individual players in our system. I think Klopp cannot help but realise the required evolution in our tactics and perhaps players too. If we want to play slower build up with Thiago in the centre, that’s fine. City have proved in can be extremely effective, but I think we need to move away from our more workmanlike midfield and employ an all out defensive midfielder and probably 2 creative players. The dynamic of the front 3 and fullbacks will also have to adjust to make the system penetrative but also defensively sound. The fact we have a second half of a season to develop this system might be decisive next season. There is also an argument to try and attract a big player to play number 9. Firmino has been wonderful, but is perhaps the best representation of the old style, bringing in someone like Haaland would immediately change up our options. You cannot always adjust tactically, sometimes you need new players too.
It’s important to clarify that Liverpool have always struggled against a low block. Even last season at our best, we often laboured to a single goal win when underlying stats showed we were perhaps fortunate to get 3 points. Also, every team struggles against a low block. Its tough to break down. The key against this system is balance. You want to consistently create 3 or 4 clear chances to create a reasonable probability you will score at least 1 goal. You also need to make sure your defensive shape reduces their attacking forays so that they infrequently score at all. Getting this balance right produces a decent probability you will win a high percentage of these games, get the balance wrong and you might win 7-0 but you will also lose a few and draw a few more. Man City got it wrong last season, Liverpool have got it wrong this one. Doesn’t mean a tweaking can’t make it right though.
We need to be honest, I love him but Klopp has made a few mistakes this season. Letting Lovren go and not getting a replacement was one. Playing a near full strength team in a dead rubber and losing Jota was another. Looking for excuses for the performance dip is a third. No one expects Klopp to throw his players under the bus ala Mourinho, but a little pragmatism and expectation adjustment might have been more sensible. We are not the team of last season, pretending this is repeated glitches in the matrix and things will inevitably return to the norm is either worrying delusion or trying to over correct the teams flagging confidence. What made Sir Alex exceptional was his ability to accept mistakes leading to failure, and then address them. Utd went through periods of relative failure under his guidance but always came back because he was willing to identify team failure, and his own failure, and then look to correct it. Sometimes this was bad decisions, sometimes it was an acceptance the game had moved forward and what had previously been successful wasn’t any more. Mourinho has been less willing to accept these situations and has seen diminishing returns over his career. Whether Klopp can look inward at his own mistakes, as well as the other various issues to befall Liverpool, will strongly effect whether Liverpool bounce back from this season and return to trophy winning success in the future.
If I had to bet, I think this is Liverpool going through a transition. Perhaps the more painful this season is, the more benefit we will derive long term…
Ed Ern
Pep is a great manager after all?
Dear F365,
Firstly, a quick point on Alisson yesterday, everyone is blaming him for his mistakes, but City pressed him to death and forced him into those errors. Surely a bit of credit where credit’s due. It’s so out of character for him because he never usually has to be in those situations. Cold feet? Klopp really is the gift which keeps on giving at the moment.
But more importantly, I find I’m actually starting to love watching how City play again. Yeah wins are nice, but even in our last two title winning season I did start to get bored to death with our passing domination until the opposition defence cracked. Leroy Sane was the only thing that really used to get my heart pumping. Now we can all see that this City team is something else, more solid, happier to soak up a bit of pressure, slightly more direct down the channels. The easily shattered confidence and ability to collapse without warning were the things that grated the most. Could it be that after all of the Anfield shaftings and embarrassments by the likes of Lyon, Pep has learned some new tricks? It will be very interesting to see if he makes a fool of himself in the champions league shortly.
I can’t remember anyone accusing Alex Ferguson of being a chequebook manager when he was hoovering up all the top premier league talent below him to keep United on top (and neither am I). The true mark of his greatness was his adaptability and how his teams changed over the years. Pep’s in the middle of doing one such change, surely if he manages it then he’s truly a great manager. He’s still coming up with tactical innovations a la Cancelo and Foden, and also slowly turning Zinchenko into Mr Dependable. He’s without doubt an amazing coach if nothing else.
Cheers
Andy
Foden finish against Liverpool…
I know you can’t do it every time but, after seeing Foden welly in Citeh’s fourth, I wish Rashford would let fly when cutting in from the left, rather than consistently threatening to and trying to go all the way across and beat the left-back.
Andrew, Banbury
Man Utd defensive troubles
I am still smarting over the draw with Everton. It was such a dominating performance which included a glorious goal from Bruno which was completely undone by stupid mistakes from our defence. I need to get it off my chest:
– How many points De Gea has to cost us before OGS decides it’s time to give Henderson a run in? As pointed out by Ken, OGS loyalty is one of his weak points (Still cannot forget the number of games Periera got before he was deemed not good enough).
– Can someone please teach AWB the basics of looking left and to hold a defensive line? He played DCL onside a couple of times and Richarlison was not even trying to make runs from his end. No excuses.
– Maguire was equally culpable for the goals and it’s sometimes so painful to see him turn and run. He is an oil tanker, and I was hoping that the pace of Tanzuebe would be perfect to complement him which brings me to:
– For me, Tanzuebe is the second biggest disappointment for ManUtd this season (after Martial, obviously). I had such high hopes for him after his great performance against PSG.
– Is there another example of a time-wasting substitute whose only contribution is to give away the free kick from which the other team scored? Tanzuebe did not even touch the ball.
– I can still remember the mistakes he has made in his last couple of appearances than his contribution. Keeping in mind his injury troubles as well, is he our next generation Phil Jones? But seriously, the guy needs a loan move next season if he does not show any improvements now.
Manoranjan (Long time reader: Thank you for selecting my previous email. Made my day.)
Super Bowl templates
Having watched last night’s Superbowl, I’ve realised that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers may have just inadvertently provided us with a glimpse into the future of the Glazer’s Manchester United. Bear with me…
With Messi arriving in Manchester this summer, everyone in the know is talking about the difference he will make to Man City’s team and how poor Phil Foden will struggle for minutes. Suddenly Twitter melts down as Messi is pictured in red as United pull a reverse Teves. A few weeks later Neymar arrives from PSG and David Villa is coaxed out of retirement as the finishing pieces of a new look United.
Losing in the FA Cup semi finals, Messi and co. rally to deliver Ole’s first premier league title since 2007.
To close out the season, Man United face PSG, led by future greatest player of the beautiful game Mbappe, who have spent their season crushing all before them with an attacking flair lauded by all.
The game sees an attacking masterclass put on by Messi, as Villa scores twice and Scott McTominay shackles PSG so effectively the pundits are searching for PSG excuses before halftime.
Final Score? Man United 8 – 1 PSG as Messi cements his place as GOAT by picking up his 5th CL title and 7th Ballon d’Or.
No one saw it coming.
Cevski (mixed feelings on Spurs vs West Brom) THFC
Déjà vu
I know Liverpool have had a couple of key injury issues this season however at this moment, Klopps Liverpool are looking alot like Klopps Dortmund in his final season. Klopp is approaching 300 games as Liverpool manager and his team (which by in large has been a pretty settled 11) are looking shattered, physically and mentally. Its come out of the blue as we’ve been used to it for so long, Liverpools relentless approach to games, but it will begin to take its toll on their fatigue and proneness to injury. It got me thinking this is almost a replica of what Klopps Dortmund went through.
They had unparalleled success with league titles, cups and champions league runs and all of a sudden at around the 300 game mark they were a shadow of their former selves and struggled in his final season which during it he announced his resignation and got a bounce back in performance but ultimately ended poorly.
Now, with Liverpool he does have the assurance of being able to spend money, to cover for injuries and out of form so we’ll see if he’s able to buy himself out of history repeating itself.
Scott from Scotland
Arteta should stay…
There seems to be a lot of confusion from non Arsenal fans as to why Gooners are not calling for Arteta to be sacked. I don’t want to speak for every Gooner, but I absolutely don’t want him sacked.
The January window was deemed a positive one, where we paid up the contracts of Ozil, Mustafi and Sokratis – three players who cost the club £94m in transfer fees and were costing the club £530k per week in wages. Does this tell you how horrendously mismanaged the club has been in recent years? None of this is on Arteta.
That is just a tiny sample size. What about receiving nothing in transfer fees for Ramsey, Wilshere and Welbeck? Rejecting £60m for Sanchez only to accept Mkhitaryan in a straight swap less than 6 months later? And then desperately trying to get him off the wage bill? None of this is on Arteta either.
We’ve had different people signing different players for different Managers who want to play different systems and implement different styles of play.
The cull of this horrendously assembled squad will continue in the summer, and it’s right to allow the Arteta/Edu combo a chance to rebuild and mould a squad to their liking.
The time to judge them will be at the end of next season. If we qualify for the UCL by then, they will in my opinion, be making a good level of progress. If they are close but don’t quite succeed, it will still be worth backing them.
There is still a chance of winning the Europa League this season, which would, along with the FA Cup of last season, have them well ahead of schedule with two trophies and UCL qualification in the first 18 months.
Naz, Gooner
The Curious Case of Oleksandr Zinchenko
It’s not the spiciest take to say that football hasn’t ever been as offence-focussed as it has been for the last while. Van Dijk perhaps being the only player whose contributions aren’t measured in xGA that has received ample deserved plaudits since… Cannavaro? Full-backs Cancelo and Alexander-Arnold being lauded so highly because of their contribution going forwards further underlines this. So, it’s no surprise that following the demolition yesterday, players like Foden and Sterling were seen as the difference makers over Salah, Firmino and Mane.
Want I want to look into and can’t figure out is that Ukrainian lad who plays left-back for City. I just have so many questions! Mostly: is Zinchenko any good?! He rarely gets any scrutiny or praise from people who watch him. My understanding is that he had a loan spell where he was unspectacular at best. People say he is weak defensively and can be targeted, yet he’s matched up against the best in the league and I can’t remember an occasion where he has shown himself up to just be a central midfielder masquerading as a full-back.
Yesterday he was extremely solid against probably the best right-winger the Premier League has ever seen. Winning tackles, carefully guiding headers out the box as opposed to just clearing them and inviting more pressure and, most importantly, just staying calm. He did fluff one or two, but those were aberrations rather than part of a trend. His role in City’s second was especially understated – Alisson’s crap first clearance came down hard and fast to Zinchenko with Salah right up his backside. He passed it on the volley directly to Bernardo (maybe?) who could continue the pressure. The difficulty and technique in that pass is the kind of thing that doesn’t get mentioned but certainly should get praised.
So basically Mailbox, I’m interested in general thoughts. Where does he rank in terms of the league’s best? Is he underrated, or a beneficiary of Guardiola’s coaching and system? Is he out of position, and so would thrive in a different team playing in the middle?
Sam (fan of one of the many SCFCs), SCFC
Spurs investment
Just a couple of quick points to Mervyn, the Spurs fan frustrated with a lack of investment in the club. Spurs have recently committed £1billion to a brand new stadium. This will involve a fairly sizable hit on the transfer budget available to the manager and has long term debt that needs to be paid off. Spurs have taken the view that to grow in to one of the very best clubs in the country they need a more consistent revenue stream that they can get by getting 25k more rich Londoner’s in for each game and use the stadium for NFL, concerts and various corporate events. It is a case of taking a step or two back to enable you to take giant leaps forward. Also, with Covid, clubs have lost out on hundreds of millions of pounds with fans not being at games. This will effect some clubs more than others and those clubs with a steady squad and manager with his feet under the table will be better off because the transfer market is relatively dead at the moment. Despite that Spurs did back Jose with £80m odd this summer and the £350k odd of Gareth Bales wages. £1 billion stadium is bound to have an effect on the transfer budget available, it will have done since the stadium project was first dreamt up and will continue to do so until the huge debt is more manageable. It took Arsenal a good 10 years to release the transfer purse strings from a stadium that cost half the price.
Rich (AFC)
A VAR idea. A VARdea?
Hey guys!
Firstly, this idea hinges on us all agreeing on this point: Think of an injustice which happened to your team in terms of a refereeing decision. If it was big enough to change a game, (e.g. a penalty call, a blatant offside, a terrible challenge etc) then chances are the players on your team knew as much and acted accordingly, throwing their arms in the air and appealing strongly. Ergo, if an incident is really worth reviewing and nit-picking over, the players reaction will tell us all, well before we at home and in the stadium start seeing slow motion replays of it and lines drawn up on the screen.
A current scenario – a goal is scored. The team who conceded has no injustice to appeal about and is just blaming each other for bad defending. The team who scored celebrate but not like they used to before VAR, there’s now that caution there, tempering the unbridled joy of scoring in case VAR finds something to pull them up for. VAR does find something wrong which no one else noticed and chalks the goal off. If you’re a fan of the team who conceded, yes you’re relieved, but pre-VAR days, we probably wouldn’t have noticed this grievance anyway due to the lack of reaction from our players, so we probably wouldn’t have felt half as hard done by had the goal stood. I’m a Manchester United fan but I doubt any of our defenders saw the miniscule offside which led to Che Adam’s goal being disallowed enough to appeal strongly out of anything other than sheer hope, and I certainly wouldn’t have complained too much had it been allowed to stand.
Here’s the idea – have an appeals system and give the power back to the people on the pitch. Let the referees referee the game and the linesmen and women call the offsides as they used to. VAR still watches over but doesn’t interfere unless called upon. Like in tennis, each team gets say 3 appeals for a VAR review, and the captain has final word on whether to go ahead and use one. If it turns out they were right to appeal once the referee has reviewed the incident, they keep their 3 challenges. If the ref’s decision is maintained or he sees no issue, then they lose one. This would stop appeals happening willy nilly, and I think it could also lead to some interesting new dynamics e.g. in a big final, a team (Atletico Madrid) uses up all their challenges whining their way through a match but when they need a call to go their way the most in the 119th minute of extra time, they’ve shot themselves in the foot because they’ve got no challenges remaining.
If we assume that any incident worth reviewing evokes a strong on-pitch reaction, the players will know when to use an appeal and we won’t be splitting hairs endlessly about armpits being offside or handballs which happened 30 seconds before a goal which no one else noticed or cared about. We would go back to accepting a general level of refereeing given by the refs on the pitch, whilst still catching any major injustices when it really matters. For what it’s worth I do feel like VAR is improving bit by bit but I also think that for it to really be respected and accepted, the Aussie way of total transparency which we’ve seen recently where everyone is mic’d up has to be the way to go.
I’d be interested to hear what flaws there are in this idea because I’m sure there are some. Or if there are ways it could be tweaked to work better.
Thanks!
Jordan (It’s been a while since I wrote in, are brackets still a thing?), Manchester
Mike Dean and the media
I see that as is inevitable in this day and age, Mike Dean has been subjected to death threats against him and his family, by scumbags on social media, for daring to make a mistake at his job.
This will be rightly condemned by football pundits.
However, when listening to these condemnations, people might want to pop onto YouTube and watch the highlights of Sky Sports News’s coverage of Man U v Southampton, last midweek. Listen to the personalised attacks on Mike Dean. This wasn’t a referee enforcing a football law as he saw it, this was ‘Mike Dean, attention seeker’. More personalised comments followed. Match of the Day had similarly personalised comments.
So yeah, social media is full of scumbags, but those scumbags are taking their lead from very well paid football-pundits/clickbait generators.
Eoghan
Sigh. This weekend I looked on with worry as I saw pundit after pundit, journalist after journalist, all rushing to berate Mike Dean and lambast another decision. Even the BBC Sport and MOTD social media accounts published damning quotes from pundits, slating Dean and his colleagues over Soucek’s red card.
And so the inevitable has happened, some brainless ‘fans’ have sent Dean and his family death threats. Of course they have, is anybody surprised that has happened when almost everywhere you looked at the weekend was screaming about a terrible decision and football people were all piling on. When are pundits and journalists going to realise they play a huge part in whipping up idiots on social media.
On Sunday I was watching the rugby (not by choice) and there was a moment when a Welsh player did a remarkable pass but it went slightly forward. The commentators (always one main, one from the home side and one for the away) were all in agreement it was a forward pass and the ref was right. The viewer only got one replay – and that was from a bad angle – to judge for themselves, the game carried on instantly and no players complained. I thought about how different football and the world it embodies is, the need to create controversy and then be outraged when others have acted or responded to that controversy.
Seriously, please pull it together. Football should be an escape from the real world, a chance to enjoy not endure.
Looking forward to the mediawatch special when those who lambasted Dean now lambast those that overreacted to their overreactions.
James (LFC)
You can’t hand it both ways…
In Morgan’s detailed letter this morning he made several points pointing out how much money City have spent vs Liverpool. Sorry but Liverpool fans cannot have it both ways, on one hand praising their transfer business over the last 2-3 seasons and banging on about net spend whilst then, at the first time of suffering a real poor run of form, “complaining” that a team above them have spent more. Yes City have spent more but at some point the actual cost goes out the window and the actual players ability is factored in. I’m not buying that anyone, including his own family, thought that Canelo was a better player than TAA up until this season. Just because he cost a shed load of money and TAA cost nothing, doesn’t make him better. Last season no one said Klopp was massively overperforming, just that he was a great manager and this Liverpool team was one of the best ever. Individual players were praised as being the best goalkeeper in the world, best defender in the league, best full backs in the world, best front 3 in the world. That suddenly doesn’t go away because City spend £64m on Dias.
Joe Williams
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